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AI Reference Panel Meeting No. 3 - October 2021 #97

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sarahcleary opened this issue Sep 10, 2021 · 23 comments
Open

AI Reference Panel Meeting No. 3 - October 2021 #97

sarahcleary opened this issue Sep 10, 2021 · 23 comments
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@sarahcleary
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The third AI RP meeting is planned for Wednesday 13/10.
If you have agenda items for this meeting, can you please add them (as you think of them) to this issue?
thanks.
@APSIMInitiative/reference-panel; @uqschap7; @erik-van-oosterom
@APSIMInitiative/steering-committee
@sarahcleary
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sarahcleary commented Sep 10, 2021 •
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Proposed Agenda Items

  1. APSIM virtual issue - @kchenu
  2. Update on Workshops/Sprints - any of interest/for update?
  3. APSIM Training
  • Online Seminar Series
  • ASA in Feb
  • APSIM Week
  • Plans for 2022
  1. Plausibility Testing (continuing discussion at last AI SC Meeting)
  2. AI Software Position

Any other suggestions?

@sarahcleary
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Review/comparison of content of revised RP processes/meeting structure - @jbrider and @sarahcleary

@uqschap7
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uqschap7 commented Sep 10, 2021 via email

@sarahcleary
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@uqschap7 - this current thread is to gather agenda items from all interested parties. Once I have input, I will put together the agenda and put a link in the Agenda for ease of access. Having it on GitHub allows people to see what we might be discussing and to indicate interest in attending. I also utilise this issue for the Minutes so everyone can access these. Does that make sense?

@sarahcleary
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sarahcleary commented Sep 29, 2021 •
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Please find attached a draft agenda for your input.

Time Topic Lead
8:50 Welcome Jason Brider @jbrider
9:00

RP Software Developments and Processes

 @APSIMInitiative/Reference-Panel; @jbrider; @hol353; @Keith-Pembleton
10:20 Break
10:30 APSIM Training
  • Online Seminar Series Review of current list videos - Online Seminar Series #87
  • Review of interest via GitHub, Distribution List, Website, RG etc..
  • Plans for 2022
  • ASA in February - Requirements, Promotion
  • APSIM Week
  • APSIM-related teaching activities at Iowa State
  • Update on APSIM special issue by @kchenu
 @APSIMInitiative/Reference-Panel; @kchenu; @femiguez
11:20 AI RP Chair for 2022 Jason Brider @jbrider
11:30 Close

Please let me know if you wish to invite others that can contribute to these discussions.

Please ensure you have reviewed GitHub recently and provide any feedback on relevant issues.

@sarahcleary
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@APSIMInitiative/reference-panel - if anyone has ideas of new 'initiatives' that the AI can undertake or that the AI can assist with, please let @sarahcleary know.

@femiguez
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@sarahcleary I can provide a 5 minute update on APSIM-related teaching activities at Iowa State

@sarahcleary
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thanks @femiguez - I have added it to the agenda

@sarahcleary
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Apologies received from @EnliWang

@sarahcleary
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Apologies received from @LouisAK

@sno036
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sno036 commented Oct 5, 2021

@sarahcleary - apologies from @sno036 as well.

@sarahcleary
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Thanks @sno036. @MarkLieffering - are you available?

@MarkLieffering
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MarkLieffering commented Oct 5, 2021 via email

@sarahcleary
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Apologies from @hol353.

@uqschap7
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uqschap7 commented Oct 8, 2021 via email

@sarahcleary
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Apologies @uqschap7.
Yes, we will be proceeding with the meeting tomorrow as we have a quorum
DAF - @jbrider
UQ - @peter-devoil & @kchenu
CSIRO - @JulianneLilley
USQ - @Keith-Pembleton
PFR - @rcichota
ISU - @sarchontoulis & @femiguez
AgR - @MarkLieffering

If any of the above is unable to attend, please let me know.

@sarahcleary
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Time Topic Lead
8:50 Welcome Jason Brider @jbrider
9:00

RP Software Developments and Processes

 @APSIMInitiative/Reference-Panel; @jbrider; @hol353; @Keith-Pembleton
10:00 APSIM Training
  • Online Seminar Series Review of current list videos - Online Seminar Series #87
  • Review of interest via GitHub, Distribution List, Website, RG etc..
  • Plans for 2022
  • ASA in February - Requirements, Promotion
  • APSIM Week
  • APSIM-related teaching activities at Iowa State
  • Update on APSIM special issue by @kchenu
 @APSIMInitiative/Reference-Panel; @kchenu; @femiguez
10:50 Break
11:00 Discussion on uptake of Next Gen Peter Thorburn @PeterThorburn
11:30 AI RP Chair for 2022 Jason Brider @jbrider
11:40 Close

@sarahcleary
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@APSIMInitiative/reference-panel - just letting you know that we've covered the majority of the agenda.
Now on a break. Please phone back in prior to 11 (BNE time) if joining the Discussion on uptake of Next Gen.

@PeterThorburn
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PeterThorburn commented Oct 13, 2021 via email

@jbrider
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jbrider commented Oct 18, 2021 •
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@APSIMInitiative/reference-panel
APSIMInitiative/ApsimX#6870
After discussion with @hol353 We propose that the easiest solution for a 'training version' was to enable people to create a url link to a specific release - which could be published as part of a course's requirements.
We could also enable searching by release number on the downloads page, and also enable similar functionality to the Upgrade process.

@sarahcleary
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@sarchontoulis - are you comfortable with the above solution for the training version - #97 (comment)

@sarchontoulis
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Yes, sounds like a good solution!

@sarahcleary
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2021-10 Minutes

Members: Video/Teleconference:

@jbrider; @peter-devoil; @kchenu; @JulianneLilley; @Keith-Pembleton; @rcichota; @sarchontoulis; @femiguez; @MarkLieffering; @uqschap7; @erik-van-oosterom

October 13th 2021 - 8:50 am AEST

Agenda Item

Welcome

Welcome from @jbrider to new members and @femiguez and @rcichota
@jbrider provided a summary of the current structure of the RP meetings and expectations of RP members to review GitHub regularly. Note that we are still working under the requirement that there is need for agreement from AI members for all decisions are being made. Each organisation has one vote.

RP Software Developments and Processes

Workshop and/or Software Development Updates

Update from @sarchontoulis on Root Modelling Work
Not much to report as busy with other projects.
Major root data has been uploaded into APSIM GitHub and working on Maize and Soybean model.
Now waiting for some improvements in the models prior to be able to develop improvements in the root equations. Interelated work. Have met with both @hamishbrown and @jbrider

Update from @Keith-Pembleton on Soils Workshop/project - #18
No progress due to capacity issues.

Update from @hol353 on Improved systems for sensibility tests for all crop models
Postpone update till next meeting

Plausibility Testing - as per discussion at AI SC meeting
Postpone until after Sorghum release. Issues should be addressed in this process.

AI Software Position
FYI – Graeme has requested to keep the existing arrangement. So @hol430 we continue with 50%UQ ; 50% AI.

Review and discussion on how online GitHub 'weekly' review process is going - Comparison of monthly review meetings and 2021 Structure

Main difference is that there is little conversation about software developments arising from new issues. In the previous monthly meetings there was ‘incidental conversations’ but little if no interaction via GitHub that would consider to be a replacement. Maybe occurring in these longer meetings but not via GitHub.
Some of these discussions are covered as part of the online review process.

Models for Review
Sorghum Review – delayed due to @jbrider additional role.

Development Plan
Autodoc failures – noted that @hol430 submitted a large pull request yesterday so assume progress is being made.

APSoil update
@sarahcleary provided an updated.
Noted that CSIRO agreed that the AI owns APSoil, but recommended better management of the data and ensure that when data is added, they are noted under what conditions they are adding the data to APSoil. Improvement on communication which is tied to the revamp the APSIM download pages and process.

New developments
@Keith-Pembleton provided an update on a new PhD student modelling perennial grain in Next Gen. Once started, will enter into the Development Plan. Working with DPI (NSW) who hold a lot of the data. Utilising the Lucerne model as the basis.

Projects for possible funding

Noted the potential funding opportunity for Improved systems for sensibility tests for all crop models – noting lack of capacity of @hol353
Also, note @sno036 ’s comment.
Please add comment if there are any thoughts.

APSIM Training

Online Seminar Series

Review of current list videos - #87


  • Note there has been a break in videos due to lack of capacity from Adam and Val.
    Will circulate new videos as they are recorded.

    Plans for 2022

    Even if March 2022 ends up possible, but too close to rescheduled ASA 2021
    Needs to be face to face.
    Propose second half of 2022 – possibly September 2022
    Not publicizing any potential date
    Maybe need to book rooms at QBP in December to secure rooms, including the lecture theatre.
    Review teaching break/school holidays etc..

    Training for Next Gen

    ASPIM Week was originally part of the solution
    What can we provide in the interim?
    ISU intending on converting their training materials to Next Gen in January for the upcoming workshop mid-year. Noting there will be some specific examples for the US – corn and soyabean.
    Same with USQ (@Keith-Pembleton) – to convert materials from Classic to Next Gen - but relies on wheat, chickpea and sorghum, so waiting on sorghum. Not training in modelling but do teach mechanics of setting up a simulation.
    @sarchontoulis raised a concern about having both Maize Model and SWIM in release. But also, to ensure there is a single version for this training to avoid training materials to become obsolete and require changing close to the workshop.
    Discussion about the possibility and value of converting the training materials from APSIM Classic to APSIM Next Gen. Existing materials would be of value, but no capacity within the group.

    APSIM Special Issue

    @kchenu provided an update. 26 EOIs have been received. 4 Submissions, 1being reviewed.
    Expect more to come. Diverse submissions. Ongoing submissions, Deadline of April 2022.

    ISU Update

    @femiguez provided a summary of his graduate course in crop and soil modelling. Offered to adapt one of his lectures to be used as an APSIM Online Seminar Video. He has requested some suggestions of topics. Uses both APSIM Classic and Next Gen. In 2021, using Next Gen in this course. Does create examples as part of this course and happy to take requests for examples that could be utilised more broadly.

    Discussion on Stability of APSIM Next Gen for teaching

    APSIM Classic ‘stable’ as it isn’t being developed so teaching materials don’t need modification
    @Keith-Pembleton commented that online students don’t cope well when something doesn’t work – so if the instructions need to be modified due at change in the model or the results are not identical as the example.
    @femiguez ensures the students download a version and work with that during the semester to avoid changes/errors.
    Version change can cause issues with both teaching and project work.
    Increased issue due to the frequency of the updates.
    Discussion on an ‘educational’ version of APSIM. Proposed an option of Next Gen ‘teaching’ version.
    Key action is to ensure bugs are reported so they can be fixed
    **ACTION: ** @hol353 on providing a 'Training Version YYYY' near the end of the year (so materials may be updated for the following year. These could then be easily distinguished amongst a list of other versions.

    ASA 2021

    As per the AI SC Meeting, should we look at any APSIM training at the ASA conference.
    **ACTION: ** @sarahcleary to prepare material for the ASA conference

    AI RP Chair for 2022

    In general, the chair rotates through the AI members.
    @sarchontoulis would be happy to Chair but in 2023 due to workload
    @HamishBrownPFR – has been asked, but is checking internally. He is currently on leave
    ACTION: Await @HamishBrownPFR a'snswer

    Discussion on uptake of Next Gen led by @PeterThorburn

    Developers only working on APSIM Next Gen
    Users not migrating.
    Has the RP thought about either informally or formally approaching the APSIM community to find out why users are not migrating.
    @PeterThorburn hasn’t moved to Next Gen predominately due to versioning.
    What are barriers?
    Potential funding from the AI SC if there is ‘evidence’ of the barriers which need to be removed to help users migrate.
    @Keith-Pembleton – his team was due to lack of crop models.
    Possibly tell who is actually using APSIM vs downloading.
    @rcichota – versioning issue – if one person in the group changes version, then others can’t utilise which causes issues for the project.
    @peter-devoil – functionality

    Surveys – what are we trying to achieve? What questions to ask.

    Proposal from @PeterThorburn – everyone talk to 3-5 people – do you use Next Gen, and if not, why?
    And/or Survey on something like RG – survey with say, 4 questions. E.g. SWIM
    @sarchontoulis – time. Need to invest time to come up to speed with Next Gen. If APSIM Classic doesn’t exist, would push everyone to Next Gen. Interface has changed, looks different, terms are different
    Note that APSIM Classic might stop being able to be utilised to the general user when a Microsoft upgrade occurs. Need to get this communication out there.
    @femiguez – functionality; confusing versioning for normal users – or official release every 6 months might help to solve the problem
    Would be helpful to have ‘cheat sheets’ which showed the difference with APSIM Classic and Next Gen, with reference to the terms used.
    ACTION: Identify key people to talk to.
    @Keith-Pembleton to go through last 12 months of APSIM Classic papers and produce an email contact list

    @jbrider updated the RP on a discussion with the AI SC. Noted that there was discussion on the ideal situation of adding resources for bug fixing etc.. Training people to really understanding the system. AI SC might be interested to partially fund support with another AI member. 50:50 model.
    @Keith-Pembleton should have someone (approx. 1 month of funding) for implementation into APSIM.
    Current is more around capacity.
    ACTION: Keith-Pembleton to draft a letter for discussion at the AI SC.

    		•

    @sarahcleary sarahcleary mentioned this issue Feb 14, 2022
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    @jbrider @femiguez @sno036 @sarchontoulis @MarkLieffering @sarahcleary @uqschap7 @PeterThorburn